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	Comments on: Taliesin West, Frank Lloyd Wright	</title>
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	<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:58:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: LB		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1998</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1998</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1996&quot;&gt;Steve&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks! And I&#039;d love to see pics if you go. Full disclosure - I&#039;m not a fan of either deco or Arts &amp; Crafts, so that gets in the way of my appreciating Wrights&#039;s houses.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1996">Steve</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks! And I&#8217;d love to see pics if you go. Full disclosure &#8211; I&#8217;m not a fan of either deco or Arts &#038; Crafts, so that gets in the way of my appreciating Wrights&#8217;s houses.</p>
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		<title>
		By: janki		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1997</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[janki]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1997</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[as i have mention earlier that i am a student of architecture,and with the same reason i addressed you as a sir.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as i have mention earlier that i am a student of architecture,and with the same reason i addressed you as a sir.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1996</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 02:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1996</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, LB.  I&#039;ll keep my eye out for the next tour of Wright&#039;s Tracy house, just south of Seattle, or the Brandes house just east.  I wonder if you&#039;d find his aesthetic more palatable when the work wasn&#039;t being done by apprentices and on a shoestring.  Probably the best home I&#039;ve seen -- that is, the most livable as-is -- is the Johnson house in Racine WI, now home of the Johnson family foundation.  It&#039;s of the era, showing both modern and deco features, but the space (and finishes) are quite stunning.
http://www.johnsonfdn.org/at-wingspread/wingspread 

Thanks again for your site and your thoughtful posts.  Cheers!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, LB.  I&#8217;ll keep my eye out for the next tour of Wright&#8217;s Tracy house, just south of Seattle, or the Brandes house just east.  I wonder if you&#8217;d find his aesthetic more palatable when the work wasn&#8217;t being done by apprentices and on a shoestring.  Probably the best home I&#8217;ve seen &#8212; that is, the most livable as-is &#8212; is the Johnson house in Racine WI, now home of the Johnson family foundation.  It&#8217;s of the era, showing both modern and deco features, but the space (and finishes) are quite stunning.<br />
<a href="http://www.johnsonfdn.org/at-wingspread/wingspread" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.johnsonfdn.org/at-wingspread/wingspread</a> </p>
<p>Thanks again for your site and your thoughtful posts.  Cheers!</p>
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		<title>
		By: LB		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1995</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1995</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1993&quot;&gt;janki&lt;/a&gt;.

It&#039;s ma&#039;am. But I kind of enjoyed being called sir. :) ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1993">janki</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s ma&#8217;am. But I kind of enjoyed being called sir. 🙂 </p>
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		<title>
		By: LB		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1994</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1994</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1986&quot;&gt;Steve&lt;/a&gt;.

Steve,

Sorry for not replying earlier; I noticed your reply when more recent comments appeared. In person I&#039;ve only seen the Guggeneheim and Fallingwater and Ennis house (only from the outside). I guess I&#039;d just like say that I can recognize an architect for innovation, vision and iconoclasm without liking his/her work itself. Wright clearly paved the way for development of new architecture in America (despite coating all his buildings with William Morris or European deco or Pre-Colombian or whatever finishings). But while I recognize his contribution, as does the AIA, I am making a more simple point. I simply dislike his aesthetics, and wouldn&#039;t want to live in any of the houses based on what I&#039;ve seen. I&#039;d want to gut them, work with the bones, refinish. By way of contrast I would love to live in Aalto&#039;s Villa Mairea as is. The sensitivity extends to the use of materials in every way, the wood, the textiles - it&#039;s like the difference between a stage set and a real house meant for humans. Lastly, on a slightly different note, I was in NYC for one of the Guggenheim&#039;s anniversaries and they were running an exhibit on the history of the building. The way it looks today, the clean white snail that I love from the outside, is entirely the doing of Solomon Guggenheim. Have you seen FLW&#039;s drawings? It&#039;s a decorative, pink folly. I can&#039;t find one of the more decorative versions online but I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve seen this: http://architecture.about.com/od/museum1/ss/Guggenheim-Color.htm
Solomon&#039;s the one who pared it down and I believe his solution was superior. To me the exhibit was really instructive. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1986">Steve</a>.</p>
<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Sorry for not replying earlier; I noticed your reply when more recent comments appeared. In person I&#8217;ve only seen the Guggeneheim and Fallingwater and Ennis house (only from the outside). I guess I&#8217;d just like say that I can recognize an architect for innovation, vision and iconoclasm without liking his/her work itself. Wright clearly paved the way for development of new architecture in America (despite coating all his buildings with William Morris or European deco or Pre-Colombian or whatever finishings). But while I recognize his contribution, as does the AIA, I am making a more simple point. I simply dislike his aesthetics, and wouldn&#8217;t want to live in any of the houses based on what I&#8217;ve seen. I&#8217;d want to gut them, work with the bones, refinish. By way of contrast I would love to live in Aalto&#8217;s Villa Mairea as is. The sensitivity extends to the use of materials in every way, the wood, the textiles &#8211; it&#8217;s like the difference between a stage set and a real house meant for humans. Lastly, on a slightly different note, I was in NYC for one of the Guggenheim&#8217;s anniversaries and they were running an exhibit on the history of the building. The way it looks today, the clean white snail that I love from the outside, is entirely the doing of Solomon Guggenheim. Have you seen FLW&#8217;s drawings? It&#8217;s a decorative, pink folly. I can&#8217;t find one of the more decorative versions online but I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve seen this: <a href="http://architecture.about.com/od/museum1/ss/Guggenheim-Color.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://architecture.about.com/od/museum1/ss/Guggenheim-Color.htm</a><br />
Solomon&#8217;s the one who pared it down and I believe his solution was superior. To me the exhibit was really instructive. </p>
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		<title>
		By: janki		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1993</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[janki]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1993</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[i think i get my answer, thank you sir.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think i get my answer, thank you sir.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: LB		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1992</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1992</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1991&quot;&gt;janki&lt;/a&gt;.

Ah, yes. The fairy lights were nice. On a rock ceiling heavily coated in mortar that has been scored into lines. That&#039;s all I can tell you. Again I&#039;m puzzled by the seemingly deliberate clumsy mortaring everywhere; I&#039;m sure there&#039;s an elaborate explanation for it. I found it jarring, so clumsy as to seem to be making a point. Especially when juxtaposed with all the highly finished, imported Asian elements (doors, sculpture). I&#039;ve been in village/desert environments all over the world and never seen Fred Flintstone mortaring like this. What&#039;s it&#039;s function? It has the look of someone making a point about mortaring, not solving an actual functional problem. I don&#039;t know. But I felt the same way about the rest of the finishing as well as furniture: crappy presentation in a room with unbelievably superior acoustics. That&#039;s the weird thing about FLW for me; the underlying superiority of the basic structure, jarringly juxtaposed with a distinctly un-pleasing resolution in materials, colour, aesthetic. I can&#039;t shake the sensation it&#039;s an affectation. I think Wright liked what he was doing, and I suspect he was internally conflicted about tradition. 

Underlying form seems to be at war with the finishing, as if he didn&#039;t think humans (including himself) could handle the new forms without an overlay of something historically familiar, like ancient Egypt/deco, while also pulling against that with slapdash rock wall construction. I&#039;m trying to focus on function not form here, but the forms and aesthetics in his work (not just Taliesin West) are so dominating for me, so badly resolved that I start to lose faith in its functional superiority too. 

Compare: http://blog.ounodesign.com/2009/06/20/aaltos-villa-mairea-in-finland/

PS I wanted to just add that I don&#039;t believe the failures (in my view) are due to the ad hoc nature of the site, the fact that it started as a camp, or the poverty of the budget. I actually think sometimes that the more money you apply to a project, the worse the result, so perhaps the more funds he applied to the site, the worse it got. I&#039;d like to have seen it in its early days. I just don&#039;t believe he understood his own creation well enough to finish it successfully at all. What was most cheap were his own secret aesthetic commitments.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1991">janki</a>.</p>
<p>Ah, yes. The fairy lights were nice. On a rock ceiling heavily coated in mortar that has been scored into lines. That&#8217;s all I can tell you. Again I&#8217;m puzzled by the seemingly deliberate clumsy mortaring everywhere; I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s an elaborate explanation for it. I found it jarring, so clumsy as to seem to be making a point. Especially when juxtaposed with all the highly finished, imported Asian elements (doors, sculpture). I&#8217;ve been in village/desert environments all over the world and never seen Fred Flintstone mortaring like this. What&#8217;s it&#8217;s function? It has the look of someone making a point about mortaring, not solving an actual functional problem. I don&#8217;t know. But I felt the same way about the rest of the finishing as well as furniture: crappy presentation in a room with unbelievably superior acoustics. That&#8217;s the weird thing about FLW for me; the underlying superiority of the basic structure, jarringly juxtaposed with a distinctly un-pleasing resolution in materials, colour, aesthetic. I can&#8217;t shake the sensation it&#8217;s an affectation. I think Wright liked what he was doing, and I suspect he was internally conflicted about tradition. </p>
<p>Underlying form seems to be at war with the finishing, as if he didn&#8217;t think humans (including himself) could handle the new forms without an overlay of something historically familiar, like ancient Egypt/deco, while also pulling against that with slapdash rock wall construction. I&#8217;m trying to focus on function not form here, but the forms and aesthetics in his work (not just Taliesin West) are so dominating for me, so badly resolved that I start to lose faith in its functional superiority too. </p>
<p>Compare: <a href="http://blog.ounodesign.com/2009/06/20/aaltos-villa-mairea-in-finland/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://blog.ounodesign.com/2009/06/20/aaltos-villa-mairea-in-finland/</a></p>
<p>PS I wanted to just add that I don&#8217;t believe the failures (in my view) are due to the ad hoc nature of the site, the fact that it started as a camp, or the poverty of the budget. I actually think sometimes that the more money you apply to a project, the worse the result, so perhaps the more funds he applied to the site, the worse it got. I&#8217;d like to have seen it in its early days. I just don&#8217;t believe he understood his own creation well enough to finish it successfully at all. What was most cheap were his own secret aesthetic commitments.</p>
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		<title>
		By: janki		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1991</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[janki]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 18:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1991</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://www.flickr.com/photos/ouno/6613962533/ 
i am talking abut this one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ouno/6613962533/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.flickr.com/photos/ouno/6613962533/</a><br />
i am talking abut this one.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LB		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1990</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 18:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1990</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1989&quot;&gt;janki&lt;/a&gt;.

I don&#039;t remember that ceiling, Janki! Do you have a photo? Are you talking about the theatre? And I do think local materials could have been used better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1989">janki</a>.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember that ceiling, Janki! Do you have a photo? Are you talking about the theatre? And I do think local materials could have been used better.</p>
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		<title>
		By: janki		</title>
		<link>https://ounodesign.com/2012/01/08/taliesin-west-frank-lloyd-wright/#comment-1989</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[janki]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 18:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.ounodesign.com/?p=13353#comment-1989</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[hi ,
hank you for your reply, first of all i want to tell you that i am not against or i am not follower of FLW. now if you are going in this direction i would like to incorporate some other element like limitation of materials and maintenance. you may right at judging the  type of the materials which are used. but i think there are no rules for form of the building and shape of the water-body.
and you were talking about jaipur, some how even i belong to desert part of the india, somehow i belong to kutch and i have seen some odd angles of roof and balcony and many other elements. and those buildings are really working well in that hot and  dry  climate.
one of my question about  the dinner cabaret room is still there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi ,<br />
hank you for your reply, first of all i want to tell you that i am not against or i am not follower of FLW. now if you are going in this direction i would like to incorporate some other element like limitation of materials and maintenance. you may right at judging the  type of the materials which are used. but i think there are no rules for form of the building and shape of the water-body.<br />
and you were talking about jaipur, some how even i belong to desert part of the india, somehow i belong to kutch and i have seen some odd angles of roof and balcony and many other elements. and those buildings are really working well in that hot and  dry  climate.<br />
one of my question about  the dinner cabaret room is still there.</p>
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